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Sandy Munro, CEO of Munro & Associates, an automotive benchmarking firm based in Detroit, believes that the Tesla Model 3’s build quality is incredibly lacking. In a video of his observations on the vehicle, the teardown specialist lamented on the Model 3’s apparent haphazard construction and flawed design, from its panel gaps and trunk to its non-mechanical interior rear door handles.
The automotive veteran’s comments and observations on Tesla’s vehicle were featured in a recently uploaded video from Autoline Network, where host John McElroy tackled the flaws of the Model 3 with the Detroit veteran. From a general standpoint, the Munro & Associates CEO had a lot of issues with the car’s fit and finish, with the automotive teardown expert stating that he could not imagine “how they (Tesla) released this (the Model 3).”
One particular pain point for Munro was the glaring panel gaps in the vehicle. On the rear trunk of the Model 3, the Detroit-based executive noted that some gaps were so huge, he could fit his thumb in. Using some classic hyperbole and seemingly jabbing at Tesla CEO Elon Musk’s long-term plans for SpaceX, Munro quipped that the gaps in the car could be seen all the way “from Mars.”
The Model 3’s door handles did not get any approval from the Detroit veteran, too. According to Munro, the mechanism of the front door handles on the mass market electric compact sedan is far too complicated to operate. Munro, who admitted that his wrists were previously injured in an accident, went so far as to state that the doors were “impossible” to open with one hand, and that it caused him great pain to use. The CEO summarized his comments by saying that he “hated” the car’s door handles.
Apart from the front door mechanism and the panel gaps on the Model 3, Munro also took issue with the lack of mechanical door handles for the car’s rear seats. According to Munro, the lack of mechanical door mechanisms on the rear would force passengers to crawl out of the car from the trunk in the event of an accident, which is incredibly difficult and risky. Coupled with the heavy trunk of the Model 3 and the car’s confusing cut zones for emergency personnel, the Detroit veteran noted that Tesla’s latest vehicle is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Overall, Munro concluded that Tesla had done a really bad job with the Model 3. In the Detroit veteran’s opinion, however, the main flaw of the car was the fact that it was designed by a company that is not experienced in the auto industry at all.
“This thing is a miserable job, and we’ve come to the conclusion that these guys at Tesla are definitely electronics snobs.”
Many of the auto veteran’s statements in the recently uploaded video seem to be a deliberate attempt to damage the credibility of an otherwise critically-acclaimed car. Since Tesla has begun the deliveries of the Model 3, the mass market electric compact sedan has garnered rave reviews from multiple online publications and customers alike. While the car is not perfect in any way, the Model 3 is nonetheless hailed as a vehicle that can very well usher in a new era in transportation.
Quite interestingly, Munro’s bias does not seem to come from an anti-electric car standpoint. In the past, the auto veteran hailed the BMW i3 as a masterfully manufactured car, and he was pretty impressed with the Chevy Bolt EV, too. Perhaps the reason could be provided by Jalopnik, however, which reported that Munro & Associates’s most prolific clients are GM, Ford, and Chrysler, otherwise known as the Big Three of the legacy American auto industry.
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1 likes 6 months ago
Thanks for sharing. We've already debated this video at length on M3OC and the consensus was it's incredibly biased. Lots of focus on the negatives, little to be said about plus points... Feels like a ploy from historical carmakers to disparage the car. How can a 'Detroit veteran' (who used to work for Ford...) be expected to be objective... They should have added Bob Lutz in the video as cherry on the pie... :D Your last paragraph is also indicative of the motivation behind this particular video report.
Also totally contrasting with reported experiences of Model 3 owners so far... What does that tell us..? :rolleyes:
Also totally contrasting with reported experiences of Model 3 owners so far... What does that tell us..? :rolleyes:
1 likes 6 months ago
Ok, he used to work or works for Big Three.
But anyhow, gaps are gaps. And such big gaps, especially different gaps on left and right side, are no good sign.
To be noted, again, that very few to no Model 3 owner on M3OC has reported to have any major issuer with pannel gaps or, more generally fit & finish... ;)
And I am convinced this can only get better as they ramp up, certainly by the time the car reaches our (EU) shores... :-)
1 likes 6 months ago
So let's say my 3 comes in and has huge gaps. I don't believe it will, but let's just pretend. Do I get to refuse delivery and have it fixed or have another one made and shipped?
Depending on how bad, you may ask to get this fixed, IMHO (beware: I don’t work for T≡SLA so don’t view my opinion as a guarantee... ;). As far as a new one being made for ya, I would seriously doubt it.
Don’t over stress this one. Your car will be be.you.ti.ful!! :D
1 likes 6 months ago
Some of the model s that had gaps here in Denmark got sent to a tesla approved workshop to get fixed. And the ones I've seen turned out good.
1 likes 6 months ago
RE: the expert's opinion of the early build Tesla Model 3: (Someone needs to do their homework)
1. That port in the front bumper is to be used in the event the 12v battery fails, it is NOT, NOT for emergency responders. They would use a jaws of life or other power tools to get to the High Voltage cut off. Even in that front end collision of the Model 3 into a light pole at high speed, the occupants were able to open doors and walk away from the accident. The 12V battery did NOT disconnect or dislodge.
2. The gap in the trunk lid can be caused by someone intentionally twisting the trunk lid when open. There is an adjustment that is easily made in the hinges to make the gap equal on both sides. If this was an early build, it's likely they did not check and adjust this when it came off the line...(or worse, the shill for Detroit did a little twisting before the video started to make his point.)
3. The PROFESSIONAL reviews of the Model 3 emphasis their surprise at how much the Model 3 has improved over the Model S and X regarding gaps. All but one of these reviews indicates they could not see any deficiencies in the build quality, in fact, quite the opposite. And some of those reviews were done on early builds of the Model 3.
Am I the only one on this planet that does not go around with a micrometer and search for panel gaps in a car? Before joining some of these forums I never heard anyone discuss panel gaps. It's like there are a slew of annal retentive panel gap measurers who are either Tesla haters or pose as Tesla owners with a 'panel gap obsession'. In my case, I hop in my Model S 70D and get the Tesla smile every time I get behind the wheel. It's alway exhilarating, dependable, quiet and fun to drive.
:)
1. That port in the front bumper is to be used in the event the 12v battery fails, it is NOT, NOT for emergency responders. They would use a jaws of life or other power tools to get to the High Voltage cut off. Even in that front end collision of the Model 3 into a light pole at high speed, the occupants were able to open doors and walk away from the accident. The 12V battery did NOT disconnect or dislodge.
2. The gap in the trunk lid can be caused by someone intentionally twisting the trunk lid when open. There is an adjustment that is easily made in the hinges to make the gap equal on both sides. If this was an early build, it's likely they did not check and adjust this when it came off the line...(or worse, the shill for Detroit did a little twisting before the video started to make his point.)
3. The PROFESSIONAL reviews of the Model 3 emphasis their surprise at how much the Model 3 has improved over the Model S and X regarding gaps. All but one of these reviews indicates they could not see any deficiencies in the build quality, in fact, quite the opposite. And some of those reviews were done on early builds of the Model 3.
Am I the only one on this planet that does not go around with a micrometer and search for panel gaps in a car? Before joining some of these forums I never heard anyone discuss panel gaps. It's like there are a slew of annal retentive panel gap measurers who are either Tesla haters or pose as Tesla owners with a 'panel gap obsession'. In my case, I hop in my Model S 70D and get the Tesla smile every time I get behind the wheel. It's alway exhilarating, dependable, quiet and fun to drive.
:)
0 likes 6 months ago
What an idiot praising bmw I3 with its stupid rear doors which are almost impossible to open. And then saying the model 3 doors can't open if it's in a crash. Pretty sure ncap has another take on that. Lobbied indeed.
0 likes 6 months ago
Thanks for sharing. We've already debated this video at length on M3OC and the consensus was it's incredibly biased. Lots of focus on the negatives, little to be said about plus points... Feels like a ploy from historical carmakers to disparage the car. How can a 'Detroit veteran' (who used to work for Ford...) be expected to be objective... They should have added Bob Lutz in the video as cherry on the pie... :D Your last paragraph is also indicative of the motivation behind this particular video report.
Also totally contrasting with reported experiences of Model 3 owners so far... What does that tell us..? :rolleyes:
Ok, he used to work or works for Big Three.
But anyhow, gaps are gaps. And such big gaps, especially different gaps on left and right side, are no good sign.
0 likes 6 months ago
I am a reservation holder, and enthusiast for electric cars, but I think it is too simple just to say this report is a deliberate attempt to harm Tesla by a person who makes his money from the ICE car industry.
Almost all these points have been made by fanboy reviewers in one review or other. What is perhaps new are the findings after 'tearing down' the car, which other reviewers have not done. Even those findings are a replication of faults found in Model S and X. So I am prepared to accept them as likely valid.
What I would say is that even with the faults, Tesla is the favourite large premium car in the USA, which has notoriously demanding consumers. This is, I would suggest, because there are compensations for the less than premium components, dodgy ergonomics, and slipshod assembly, namely the reliable, powerful, and planet-preserving electric drivetrain, the tremendous level of innovations, and the supercharger network that makes long distance travel almost as easy as in an ICE car, with its 100 year start on support infrastructure.
Furthermore, it is almost universally acknowledged that the identified problems have been much reduced over time in the S, and are improving also in the X. No reason not to think that will happen with the Model 3 too.
It does however make me quite content that I will not be getting my RHD model until Q2 in 2019 at earliest.
Almost all these points have been made by fanboy reviewers in one review or other. What is perhaps new are the findings after 'tearing down' the car, which other reviewers have not done. Even those findings are a replication of faults found in Model S and X. So I am prepared to accept them as likely valid.
What I would say is that even with the faults, Tesla is the favourite large premium car in the USA, which has notoriously demanding consumers. This is, I would suggest, because there are compensations for the less than premium components, dodgy ergonomics, and slipshod assembly, namely the reliable, powerful, and planet-preserving electric drivetrain, the tremendous level of innovations, and the supercharger network that makes long distance travel almost as easy as in an ICE car, with its 100 year start on support infrastructure.
Furthermore, it is almost universally acknowledged that the identified problems have been much reduced over time in the S, and are improving also in the X. No reason not to think that will happen with the Model 3 too.
It does however make me quite content that I will not be getting my RHD model until Q2 in 2019 at earliest.
0 likes 6 months ago
Wrote it before... will write it again..
90% of M3 buyers would be much better suited in a MS 75D..
I'd pull my reservation immediately and grab a 75D right now for March 2018 ..
It's worth the extra money! !
Don't say you were warned..
Not everyone is a conspiracy minded delusional.
Just picked up a HPWC for my carport last week...
90% of M3 buyers would be much better suited in a MS 75D..
I'd pull my reservation immediately and grab a 75D right now for March 2018 ..
It's worth the extra money! !
Don't say you were warned..
Not everyone is a conspiracy minded delusional.
Just picked up a HPWC for my carport last week...
0 likes 6 months ago
Wrote it before... will write it again..
90% of M3 buyers would be much better suited in a MS 75D..
I'd pull my reservation immediately and grab a 75D right now for March 2018 ..
It's worth the extra money! !
Don't say you were warned..
Not everyone is a conspiracy minded delusional.
Joe, I wrote it before... will write it again...
I seriously doubt that a large fraction of the 90% of Model 3 reservation holders you're alluding to have the 25-30 extra grand to spare ($75k base price S75D, vs. $45k for base LRB... granted, without heated front seats & SAS) so, worth or not worth it, there is another reality check here, not the result of delusion.
Don't say you have not been reminded... ;)
0 likes 6 months ago
Check your TESLA history...
If you wanna deal with problems.. buy a M3
Want an accomplished vehicle?
Get an MS..
Lookin what's in my rear hatch!
0 likes 6 months ago
I'm pretty sure that emergency responders are not expected to take a battery to the jumper cables to pop the front trunk and get to the safety isolation link. That feature is there to get the trunk open without damaging it in the event of an electrical fault. Emergency transponders after an accident would just take a crowbar to it!
Also, are rear passengers really supposed to escape through the rear trunk? I would suggest they are supposed to get out through the front doors, or do the front seats really not slide or fold forward enough to allow that?
Also, are rear passengers really supposed to escape through the rear trunk? I would suggest they are supposed to get out through the front doors, or do the front seats really not slide or fold forward enough to allow that?
0 likes 6 months ago
With John McElroy involved it didn't surprise me at all. He is an all time Tesla hater. I would be willing to bet $$$ that he set this up completely along with the jabs and snarks being thrown out. I used to listen to Mc Elroy's podcast and stopped because of his EXTREME bias. I own Tesla's and truly do think they are the best cars I have ever owned. That includes my BMW's and Mercedes that actually were more expensive so it is not coming from a lesser car. I am sure Mc Elroy will come around some time once he overcomes his own biasness and see truly how great the future of cars is and will be. Of course if not then his show will continue to lose listener and advertisers and he'll just sit back and wonder what happened to himself.
0 likes 6 months ago
Agree with you concerning gaps. Those need to be tightened up, and I expect they will be in the coming months. His point about the lack of rear mechanical handles is a huge one. In a crisis you need to escape quickly and that absence needs to be fixed.
0 likes 6 months ago
For sure some aspects of the M3 are questionnable in terms of quality, security and easy-to-use.
It is finally this last point which will probably make me choose another EV, like the Jaguar I-Pace maybe.
My wife will have to drive the car. I know it would be a nightmare for her (and so for me) to active many equipment only by the main screen. I can forget it :(
@joeski1 : nice to see you enjoy your S75D. But the 2 cars are very different and even not considering the price I know a lot of colleagues who cannot take it because it is too big for our roads, parking lots... in the south of France. Not a good choice for some people.
It is finally this last point which will probably make me choose another EV, like the Jaguar I-Pace maybe.
My wife will have to drive the car. I know it would be a nightmare for her (and so for me) to active many equipment only by the main screen. I can forget it :(
@joeski1 : nice to see you enjoy your S75D. But the 2 cars are very different and even not considering the price I know a lot of colleagues who cannot take it because it is too big for our roads, parking lots... in the south of France. Not a good choice for some people.
0 likes 6 months ago
Thanks for sharing. We've already debated this video at length on M3OC and the consensus was it's incredibly biased. Lots of focus on the negatives, little to be said about plus points... Feels like a ploy from historical carmakers to disparage the car. How can a 'Detroit veteran' (who used to work for Ford...) be expected to be objective... They should have added Bob Lutz in the video as cherry on the pie... :D Your last paragraph is also indicative of the motivation behind this particular video report.
Also totally contrasting with reported experiences of Model 3 owners so far... What does that tell us..? :rolleyes:
The bias was incredibly prevalent! You're right, Mike, this video is really an attempt to discredit the car, especially since the Model 3 is getting uber positive reviews across the board. :D
0 likes 6 months ago
So let's say my 3 comes in and has huge gaps. I don't believe it will, but let's just pretend. Do I get to refuse delivery and have it fixed or have another one made and shipped?
0 likes 6 months ago
First part of review should be prefixed with:“If your a firefighter, and this car is in an incredible devastating crash...”Ok, and just how many times in a cars life does that happen? Far less then, “if gas tank is leaking gas and...” followed by above prefix.Sorry, in that case, its crowbar under hood and hoist... all of a second..Second “issue” ok, agree, hate the handles too, but again, prefix with “if you have broken your wrist badly, and years later you have arthritis in the that wrist...’ as a matter of fact i have broke both wrists... but still.The fixation with gaps, was started when many cars would fail days off the lot. Gaps were presumed to imply all tolerances, including motor and transmission were shoddy. Unsightly yes, but thats it,
0 likes 6 months ago
Wrote it before... will write it again..
90% of M3 buyers would be much better suited in a MS 75D..
I'd pull my reservation immediately and grab a 75D right now for March 2018 ..
It's worth the extra money! !
Don't say you were warned..
Not everyone is a conspiracy minded delusional.
Just picked up a HPWC for my carport last week...
Sorry this is one of the most ignorant (wanted to use a nice word) things I have ever read on the topic.
I am holding a reservation. I am in the market for a Dodge Charger (~$42-45k CAD), Chevy Impala ($30-35k CAD) or Ford Fusion ($32-37k CAD).
I am willing to pay more for an electric car and the only one viable for my lifestyle is a Tesla.
The Model 3 base model is $35k USD, converted to CAD and adding in taxes that's $49K CAD. In Ontario, I'm eligible for a $14k incentive. Bringing my car down to $35k CAD. Let's say $40k to add in some additional fees - I intend on getting the standard range and no premium upgrade package.
If the comparable cars I am considering are $35-40k, how the hell do I go up to the $109,214.50 CAD base Model S?
The base model Model S is not a mass market car, the price of the 75D is double the average salary in Canada and USA.
0 likes 6 months ago
(...)
@joeski1 : nice to see you enjoy your S75D. But the 2 cars are very different and even not considering the price I know a lot of colleagues who cannot take it because it is too big for our roads, parking lots... in the south of France. Not a good choice for some people.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="JordanWilliamson, post: 12411, member: 19325"](...)
I am willing to pay more for an electric car and the only one viable for my lifestyle is a Tesla.
(...)
The base model Model S is not a mass market car, the price of the 75D is double the average salary in Canada and USA.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="joeski1, post: 12400, member: 2326"]2-3 years of problems ahead for ANY M3 buyers..
Check your TESLA history...
If you wanna deal with problems.. buy a M3
Want an accomplished vehicle?
Get an MS..
Lookin what's in my rear hatch!
Benito is making a good point beyond budget, yet that does not diminish the impact of a $25k plus price delta...
More than anything, Joe, this, as well as Jordan’s input from Canada, illustrates that needs vary, in addition to wallet size. Let’s be respectful of others.
Keep your enjoying your Model S.
However, don’t discourage everybody who is eager to get a 3 and won’t get an S. Thank you.
0 likes 6 months ago
The things built like a 1960's Studebaker and yet the Elon Effeminates are all fawning over what a great vehicle it is because of.. build quality? No. Reliability? No..
.. 'the autopilot.'
.. 'the autopilot.'
0 likes 6 months ago
You don't know much about this subject apparently. It's not the same as my former bmw's but very close.
0 likes 6 months ago
You don't know much about this subject apparently. It's not the same as my former bmw's but very close.
Rasmus, please be sure to hit reply on a post you wish to comment on. Not quite clear which post you are responding to here... ;)
Takk!
0 likes 6 months ago
I agree that review is somewhat bias but Tesla's manufacturing QA process is questionable. People needs to be fired for doing lousy job so be it done by Robots. Such big gaps are unacceptable, They have been producing car for more than 10 years now.
0 likes 6 months ago
Rasmus, please be sure to hit reply on a post you wish to comment on. Not quite clear which post you are responding to here... ;)
Takk!
Thanks that was a mistake
0 likes 6 months ago
Thanks that was a mistake
No harm done! Always happy to see fellow Europeans participate/comment here... :cool:
0 likes 6 months ago
It's actually quite easy. Just find one of the earliest VINs sold to employees.
0 likes 6 months ago
I tried to watch this video so I could ponder the speaker's points on my own. But, I could only get as far as the first few seconds.
As soon as he complained there was no manual way to reach electrical cutoff and how that was a problem because in the event of an accident your vehicle might have lost power, I realized there is no point going any further. All vehicles have their good and bad points. An honest discussion of the Tesla 3's would have been interested. But this is clearly someone either a.) with a pointed agenda to slam Tesla, or b.) who is so ingrained in past design that he can't abide innovation.
As soon as he complained there was no manual way to reach electrical cutoff and how that was a problem because in the event of an accident your vehicle might have lost power, I realized there is no point going any further. All vehicles have their good and bad points. An honest discussion of the Tesla 3's would have been interested. But this is clearly someone either a.) with a pointed agenda to slam Tesla, or b.) who is so ingrained in past design that he can't abide innovation.
0 likes 6 months ago
Apart from the reviewer’s very obvious pro Detroit bias, most parents (and grandparents, like us) drive around with child locks on the rear doors.
Guess what, when they’re engaged you can’t open the doors from inside, so where’s the outcry about that.:p
.... And if his wrists are that bad, I can think of plenty of other cars which would be difficult to open as well. Grumpy old man syndrome.
The Tesla haters are working hard, (but they’re not winning.):)
Guess what, when they’re engaged you can’t open the doors from inside, so where’s the outcry about that.:p
.... And if his wrists are that bad, I can think of plenty of other cars which would be difficult to open as well. Grumpy old man syndrome.
The Tesla haters are working hard, (but they’re not winning.):)
0 likes 6 months ago
This article unfortunately is making its rounds in the public sphere. I guess Elon will just have to prove the naysayers wrong once again.
0 likes 6 months ago
Am I the only one on this planet that does not go around with a micrometer and search for panel gaps in a car? Before joining some of these forums I never heard anyone discuss panel gaps. It's like there are a slew of annal retentive panel gap measurers who are either Tesla haters or pose as Tesla owners with a 'panel gap obsession'. In my case, I hop in my Model S 70D and get the Tesla smile every time I get behind the wheel. It's alway exhilarating, dependable, quiet and fun to drive.
:)
YES! I had never even heard of this gap phenomenon before the Tesla hate and I was a relatively big car geek back in the day. When a new car hit the shelves in the past, never once did I hear "These gaps are perfectly spaced! Amazing!"
