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Elon Musk and Jack Ma discuss AI’s risks, Mars, and how humans can secure the future
Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk and Alibaba founder and Chairman Jack Ma kicked off the 2019 World Artificial Intelligence Conference in Shanghai, China, with an informal debate about AI and its implications to humanity. Throughout their conversation, Musk and Ma touched on several topics, from jobs, the need for educational reform, moving to Mars, and how humans’ way of life can improve in the future.
Opposing Views
The two billionaires have vastly differing points of view concerning artificial intelligence. While Musk is cautious about AI considering the dangers it may pose to humanity, Ma is far more optimistic. “I don’t think AI is a threat,” Ma said, responding to the Tesla CEO’s introductory points. Explaining further, the Alibaba founder noted that people are “street smart,” and thus, humanity will be fine even when AI evolves. Musk, for his part, doubled down on his point, arguing that AI’s rate of improvement is notable, and there will come a time when computers will outpace humans’ natural ability to understand it.
Making humans multi-planetary
Musk noted that humans have an opportunity today because this is the first time in history that it’s “possible to extend life beyond Earth.” He added that the window for this could either be open for a long or short time. Thus, it is in humanity’s best interest to secure its multi-planetary opportunities as quickly as possible.
Ma, for his part, argued that he has no interest in multi-planetary initiatives. “I’m not a fan of going to Mars,” he noted. Instead, Ma stated that it’s more pertinent for humans to try and preserve Earth. The Alibaba chairman nevertheless stated that the world needs innovators like Elon Musk, in as much as it needs people who are willing to do what needs to be done to save the planet. “We need heroes like you (who want to go to Mars), but we need heroes like us (who will fix Earth),” Ma said.
Musk explained that preserving Earth is a notable part of Tesla’s mission, from transitioning the transportation sector towards sustainability to fostering energy independence through solar power and batteries. Responding to Ma’s statements about using resources to focus on solving Earth’s problems, Musk noted that it will only take a fraction of the world’s GDP to make humans multi-planetary, comparable or even less than what people spend on something like makeup annually. “Spending resources on making life multi-planetary would be enough with just 1% of the earth’s GDP,” Musk noted.
-->AI’s threat to jobs
“Why do we need that many jobs anyway?” Ma said, explaining that humans have been fearing that tech will take jobs away for over a hundred years, and yet, jobs have increased. Ma believes that with AI’s help, humans can eventually reach a point where the average workweek is only 3 days per week, and the average workday is only 4 hours a day. This, according to Ma, opens the opportunity for humans to enjoy life more, and live even longer. “We need to be ready to enter the era where everyone will get to live 120 years,” he said.
Musk, for his part, stated that the advent of AI will likely make most jobs pointless. Considering AI’s evolution, Musk noted that the time will come when computers could eventually make their own software. With this in mind, it would be best for people to embrace areas such as engineering and fields of study that deal with human relations, as these will still be pertinent even in the artificial intelligence age. The Tesla CEO added that this is the reason behind Neuralink and its brain-machine interface, as it will prevent humans from being left behind.
The need for education reform
The Alibaba founder admitted that he is worried about the current educational system, which is still largely designed for the industrial period. Ma argues that today, there is a need to foster more creative and constructive education, which would allow humans to live a happier life. “I want to spend more time training kids on painting, singing, dancing, these creative things that make people live like humans,” he said. Ma added that people have heart, and that is where wisdom comes from. With this in mind, it is best for education to focus on training this aspect of the human being.
The Tesla CEO agreed that creative education is needed, particularly as today’s school system is “low bandwidth and extremely slow.” Musk noted that solutions such as Neuralink’s neural lace could be a difference-maker in this sense, as it would allow people to upload skills and learn them quickly, in a manner that is not too far from the concepts depicted in the sci-fi franchise The Matrix.
The dangers of AI
While the two disruptors agreed that there is a need for educational reform, Musk and Ma disagreed most about the potential risks of AI. Ma argued that compared to humans, computers are just a toy, adding that the best resource in the world is the human brain. “It’s impossible that humans could be controlled by machines. They’re machines that are invented by humans,” Ma said.
Musk noted that he very much disagrees with Ma’s stance. Arguing his point, the Tesla CEO stated that humans are capable of creating things that are superior to people. Humans are not the last step in evolution, Musk said, and people must be wary of thinking that they are smarter than they really are. “The most important mistake smart people make is that they think they’re smart. Computers are already smarter than people. We just keep moving the goalposts,” he stated.
-->Responding to Musk’s argument, Ma noted that the metrics humans use to benchmark themselves against AI (such as world champions in Chess playing against artificial intelligence) do not make sense, as games like Go are designed for human minds. “Why should humans play against computers? It’s stupid to compete with computers,” Ma quipped, adding that while computers can be clever, humans are smarter and wiser.
The future of humanity
Musk believes that one of the world’s greatest threats lie in its declining birthrate. “The world’s biggest issue in 20 years is population collapse,” he said, adding that this could be a big issue considering that humans generally have a “20-year boot sequence.” Ma agreed, stating that even China’s population, which currently stands at 1.4 billion people, sounds a lot today, but if one factors in the country’s declining birthrate, the country will see a completely different landscape in 20 years.
Musk added that more humans are definitely needed, especially with the start of multi-planetary initiatives. “Mars needs people,” he lightly said.
Ma ultimately believes that pursuing AI is wise to make people’s lives better. The Alibaba founded added that artificial intelligence can always do a better job when logic is involved, but when logic is not involved, humans will always be better. To thrive in the future, Ma stated that humans need not just IQ, but emotional intelligence, and (love) intelligence as well. Musk nodded, stating “I agree with him. Love is the answer.”
Watch Elon Musk and Jack Ma’s informal AI debate in the video below.
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Elon Musk said in late November that he’s “tried to warn” legacy automakers and “even offered to license Tesla Full Self-Driving, but they don’t want it,” expressing frustration with companies that refuse to adopt the company’s suite, which will eventually be autonomous.
Tesla has long established itself as the leader in self-driving technology, especially in the United States. Although there are formidable competitors, Tesla’s FSD suite is the most robust and is not limited to certain areas or roadways. It operates anywhere and everywhere.
The company’s current position as the leader in self-driving tech is being ignored by legacy automakers, a parallel to what Tesla’s position was with EV development over a decade ago, which was also ignored by competitors.
The reluctance mirrors how legacy automakers initially dismissed EVs, only to scramble in catch-up mode years later–a pattern that highlights their historical underestimation of disruptive innovations from Tesla.
Elon Musk’s Self-Driving Licensing Attempts
Musk and Tesla have tried to push Full Self-Driving to other car companies, with no true suitors, despite ongoing conversations for years. Tesla’s FSD is aiming to become more robust through comprehensive data collection and a larger fleet, something the company has tried to establish through a subscription program, free trials, and other strategies.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk sends rivals dire warning about Full Self-Driving
However, competing companies have not wanted to license FSD for a handful of speculative reasons: competitive pride, regulatory concerns, high costs, or preference for in-house development.
Déjà vu All Over Again
Tesla tried to portray the importance of EVs long ago, as in the 2010s, executives from companies like Ford and GM downplayed the importance of sustainable powertrains as niche or unprofitable.
Musk once said in a 2014 interview that rivals woke up to electric powertrains when the Model S started to disrupt things and gained some market share. Things got really serious upon the launch of the Model 3 in 2017, as a mass-market vehicle was what Tesla was missing from its lineup.
This caused legacy companies to truly wake up; they were losing market share to Tesla’s new and exciting tech that offered less maintenance, a fresh take on passenger auto, and other advantages. They were late to the party, and although they have all launched vehicles of their own, they still lag in two major areas: sales and infrastructure, leaning on Tesla for the latter.
I’ve tried to warn them and even offered to license Tesla FSD, but they don’t want it! Crazy …
When legacy auto does occasionally reach out, they tepidly discuss implementing FSD for a tiny program in 5 years with unworkable requirements for Tesla, so pointless. 🤷♂️
🦕 🦕
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) November 24, 2025
Musk’s past warnings have been plentiful. In 2017, he responded to critics who stated Tesla was chasing subsidies. He responded, “Few people know that we started Tesla when GM forcibly recalled all electric cars from customers in 2003 and then crushed them in a junkyard,” adding that “they would be doing nothing” on EVs without Tesla’s efforts.
Companies laughed off Tesla’s prowess with EVs, only to realize they had made a grave mistake later on.
It looks to be happening once again.
A Pattern of Underestimation
Both EVs and self-driving tech represent major paradigm shifts that legacy players view as threats to their established business models; it’s hard to change. However, these early push-aways from new tech only result in reactive strategies later on, usually resulting in what pains they are facing now.
Ford is scaling back its EV efforts, and GM’s projects are hurting. Although they both have in-house self-driving projects, they are falling well behind the progress of Tesla and even other competitors.
It is getting to a point where short-term risk will become a long-term setback, and they may have to rely on a company to pull them out of a tough situation later on, just as it did with Tesla and EV charging infrastructure.
Tesla has continued to innovate, while legacy automakers have lagged behind, and it has cost them dearly.
Implications and Future Outlook
Moving forward, Tesla’s progress will continue to accelerate, while a dismissive attitude by other companies will continue to penalize them, especially as time goes on. Falling further behind in self-driving could eventually lead to market share erosion, as autonomy could be a crucial part of vehicle marketing within the next few years.
Eventually, companies could be forced into joint partnerships as economic pressures mount. Some companies did this with EVs, but it has not resulted in very much.
Self-driving efforts are not only a strength for companies themselves, but they also contribute to other things, like affordability and safety.
Tesla has exhibited data that specifically shows its self-driving tech is safer than human drivers, most recently by a considerable margin. This would help with eliminating accidents and making roads safer.
Tesla’s new Safety Report shows Autopilot is nine times safer than humans
Additionally, competition in the market is a good thing, as it drives costs down and helps innovation continue on an upward trend.
Conclusion
The parallels are unmistakable: a decade ago, legacy automakers laughed off electric vehicles as toys for tree-huggers, crushed their own EV programs, and bet everything on the internal-combustion status quo–only to watch Tesla redefine the industry while they scrambled for billions in catch-up capital.
Today, the same companies are turning down repeated offers to license Tesla’s Full Self-Driving technology, insisting they can build better autonomy in-house, even as their own programs stumble through recalls, layoffs, and missed milestones. History is not merely rhyming; it is repeating almost note-for-note.
Elon Musk has spent twenty years warning that the auto industry’s bureaucratic inertia and short-term thinking will leave it stranded on the wrong side of technological revolutions. The question is no longer whether Tesla is ahead–it is whether the giants of Detroit, Stuttgart, and Toyota will finally listen before the next wave leaves them watching another leader pull away in the rear-view mirror.
This time, the stakes are not just market share; they are the very definition of what a car will be in the decades ahead.
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Waymo driverless taxi drives directly into active LAPD standoff
No injuries occurred, and the passengers inside the vehicle were safely transported to their destination, as per a Waymo representative.
A video posted on social media has shown an occupied Waymo driverless taxi driving directly into the middle of an active LAPD standoff in downtown Los Angeles.
As could be seen in the short video, which was initially posted on Instagram by user Alex Choi, a Waymo driverless taxi drove directly into the middle of an active LAPD standoff in downtown Los Angeles.
The driverless taxi made an unprotected left turn despite what appeared to be a red light, briefly entering a police perimeter. At the time, officers seemed to be giving commands to a prone suspect on the ground, who looked quite surprised at the sudden presence of the driverless vehicle.
People on the sidewalk, including the person who was filming the video, could be heard chuckling at the Waymo’s strange behavior.
The Waymo reportedly cleared the area within seconds. No injuries occurred, and the passengers inside the vehicle were safely transported to their destination, as per a Waymo representative. Still, the video spread across social media, with numerous netizens poking fun at the gaffe.
-->Others also pointed out that such a gaffe would have resulted in widespread controversy had the vehicle involved been a Tesla on FSD. Tesla is constantly under scrutiny, with TSLA shorts and similar groups actively trying to put down the company’s FSD program.
A Tesla on FSD or Robotaxi accidentally driving into an active police standoff would likely cause lawsuits, nonstop media coverage, and calls for a worldwide ban, at the least.
This was one of the reasons why even minor traffic infractions committed by the company’s Robotaxis during their initial rollout in Austin received nationwide media attention. This particular Waymo incident, however, will likely not receive as much coverage.
Tesla Model Y demand in China is through the roof, and new delivery dates show the company has already sold out its allocation of the all-electric crossover for 2025.
The Model Y has been the most popular vehicle in the world in both of the last two years, outpacing incredibly popular vehicles like the Toyota RAV 4. In China, the EV market is substantially more saturated, with more competitors than in any other market.
However, Tesla has been kind to the Chinese market, as it has launched trim levels for the Model Y in the country that are not available anywhere else. Demand has been strong for the Model Y in China; it ranks in the top 5 of all EVs in the country, trailing the BYD Seagull, Wuling Hongguang Mini EV, and the Geely Galaxy Xingyuan.
The other three models ahead of the Model Y are priced substantially lower.
Tesla is still dealing with strong demand for the Model Y, and the company is now pushing delivery dates to early 2026, meaning the vehicle is sold out for the year:
NEWS: New orders for all four Tesla Model Y trims in China are now officially sold out for 2025, as the factory’s remaining production capacity for the year has been fully allocated.
Estimated delivery dates for new orders now show January-February 2026. pic.twitter.com/Dfnu7yY58N
— Sawyer Merritt (@SawyerMerritt) December 1, 2025
Tesla experienced a 9.9 percent year-over-year rise in its China-made EV sales for November, meaning there is some serious potential for the automaker moving into next year despite increased competition.
There have been a lot of questions surrounding how Tesla would perform globally with more competition, but it seems to have a good grasp of various markets because of its vehicles, its charging infrastructure, and its Full Self-Driving (FSD) suite, which has been expanding to more countries as of late.
Tesla Model Y is still China’s best-selling premium EV through October
Tesla holds a dominating lead in the United States with EV registrations, and performs incredibly well in several European countries.
With demand in China looking strong, it will be interesting to see how the company ends the year in terms of global deliveries.
Elon Musk’s warning to legacy automakers: Tesla FSD licensing snub echoes EV dismissal
Waymo driverless taxi drives directly into active LAPD standoff
