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Elon Musk and Jack Ma discuss AI’s risks, Mars, and how humans can secure the future
Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk and Alibaba founder and Chairman Jack Ma kicked off the 2019 World Artificial Intelligence Conference in Shanghai, China, with an informal debate about AI and its implications to humanity. Throughout their conversation, Musk and Ma touched on several topics, from jobs, the need for educational reform, moving to Mars, and how humans’ way of life can improve in the future.
Opposing Views
The two billionaires have vastly differing points of view concerning artificial intelligence. While Musk is cautious about AI considering the dangers it may pose to humanity, Ma is far more optimistic. “I don’t think AI is a threat,” Ma said, responding to the Tesla CEO’s introductory points. Explaining further, the Alibaba founder noted that people are “street smart,” and thus, humanity will be fine even when AI evolves. Musk, for his part, doubled down on his point, arguing that AI’s rate of improvement is notable, and there will come a time when computers will outpace humans’ natural ability to understand it.
Making humans multi-planetary
Musk noted that humans have an opportunity today because this is the first time in history that it’s “possible to extend life beyond Earth.” He added that the window for this could either be open for a long or short time. Thus, it is in humanity’s best interest to secure its multi-planetary opportunities as quickly as possible.
Ma, for his part, argued that he has no interest in multi-planetary initiatives. “I’m not a fan of going to Mars,” he noted. Instead, Ma stated that it’s more pertinent for humans to try and preserve Earth. The Alibaba chairman nevertheless stated that the world needs innovators like Elon Musk, in as much as it needs people who are willing to do what needs to be done to save the planet. “We need heroes like you (who want to go to Mars), but we need heroes like us (who will fix Earth),” Ma said.
Musk explained that preserving Earth is a notable part of Tesla’s mission, from transitioning the transportation sector towards sustainability to fostering energy independence through solar power and batteries. Responding to Ma’s statements about using resources to focus on solving Earth’s problems, Musk noted that it will only take a fraction of the world’s GDP to make humans multi-planetary, comparable or even less than what people spend on something like makeup annually. “Spending resources on making life multi-planetary would be enough with just 1% of the earth’s GDP,” Musk noted.
AI’s threat to jobs
“Why do we need that many jobs anyway?” Ma said, explaining that humans have been fearing that tech will take jobs away for over a hundred years, and yet, jobs have increased. Ma believes that with AI’s help, humans can eventually reach a point where the average workweek is only 3 days per week, and the average workday is only 4 hours a day. This, according to Ma, opens the opportunity for humans to enjoy life more, and live even longer. “We need to be ready to enter the era where everyone will get to live 120 years,” he said.
Musk, for his part, stated that the advent of AI will likely make most jobs pointless. Considering AI’s evolution, Musk noted that the time will come when computers could eventually make their own software. With this in mind, it would be best for people to embrace areas such as engineering and fields of study that deal with human relations, as these will still be pertinent even in the artificial intelligence age. The Tesla CEO added that this is the reason behind Neuralink and its brain-machine interface, as it will prevent humans from being left behind.
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The need for education reform
The Alibaba founder admitted that he is worried about the current educational system, which is still largely designed for the industrial period. Ma argues that today, there is a need to foster more creative and constructive education, which would allow humans to live a happier life. “I want to spend more time training kids on painting, singing, dancing, these creative things that make people live like humans,” he said. Ma added that people have heart, and that is where wisdom comes from. With this in mind, it is best for education to focus on training this aspect of the human being.
The Tesla CEO agreed that creative education is needed, particularly as today’s school system is “low bandwidth and extremely slow.” Musk noted that solutions such as Neuralink’s neural lace could be a difference-maker in this sense, as it would allow people to upload skills and learn them quickly, in a manner that is not too far from the concepts depicted in the sci-fi franchise The Matrix.
The dangers of AI
While the two disruptors agreed that there is a need for educational reform, Musk and Ma disagreed most about the potential risks of AI. Ma argued that compared to humans, computers are just a toy, adding that the best resource in the world is the human brain. “It’s impossible that humans could be controlled by machines. They’re machines that are invented by humans,” Ma said.
Musk noted that he very much disagrees with Ma’s stance. Arguing his point, the Tesla CEO stated that humans are capable of creating things that are superior to people. Humans are not the last step in evolution, Musk said, and people must be wary of thinking that they are smarter than they really are. “The most important mistake smart people make is that they think they’re smart. Computers are already smarter than people. We just keep moving the goalposts,” he stated.
Responding to Musk’s argument, Ma noted that the metrics humans use to benchmark themselves against AI (such as world champions in Chess playing against artificial intelligence) do not make sense, as games like Go are designed for human minds. “Why should humans play against computers? It’s stupid to compete with computers,” Ma quipped, adding that while computers can be clever, humans are smarter and wiser.
The future of humanity
Musk believes that one of the world’s greatest threats lie in its declining birthrate. “The world’s biggest issue in 20 years is population collapse,” he said, adding that this could be a big issue considering that humans generally have a “20-year boot sequence.” Ma agreed, stating that even China’s population, which currently stands at 1.4 billion people, sounds a lot today, but if one factors in the country’s declining birthrate, the country will see a completely different landscape in 20 years.
Musk added that more humans are definitely needed, especially with the start of multi-planetary initiatives. “Mars needs people,” he lightly said.
Ma ultimately believes that pursuing AI is wise to make people’s lives better. The Alibaba founded added that artificial intelligence can always do a better job when logic is involved, but when logic is not involved, humans will always be better. To thrive in the future, Ma stated that humans need not just IQ, but emotional intelligence, and (love) intelligence as well. Musk nodded, stating “I agree with him. Love is the answer.”
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Watch Elon Musk and Jack Ma’s informal AI debate in the video below.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk took to his social media platform X on Thursday night to deny a ridiculous rumor regarding the sale of the company’s Chinese vehicle production plant, Gigafactory Shanghai.
On Thursday, the Wall Street Journal, citing sources familiar with the matter, claimed in a scathing new report that Tesla was exploring a potential sale of the entire China business in an effort to help bolster a potential merger between SpaceX and Tesla.
Musk immediately denied the rumor not once but twice, initially calling it “fake news,” and then calling it “absurdly fake news” in a separate post just a few moments later:
This is fake news
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 31, 2026
The original poster of the Wall Street Journal article that Musk saw deleted the initial post sharing the headline and the rumored sale of Tesla’s China business.
This has never even come up in a discussion ever.
Absurdly fake news.
People should assume news is fake until proven otherwise.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 31, 2026
The report seemed absolutely and unequivocally false to begin with; Tesla’s business in China is among the most important pieces of the company’s business. Not only does the factory supply vehicles for the domestic market, but also for various other markets in Asia and Europe.
China is also one of the largest automotive markets in the world, and Tesla has performed well there despite the robust competition.
The speculation regarding a Tesla and SpaceX merger has started to gain steam this year as the space exploration company went public just a month ago. There has been speculation that Musk will bridge all of his companies under one “umbrella company,” and analysts believe this could happen before the end of the decade.
The Tesla and SpaceX merger everyone is talking about is quietly building
This is the latest iteration of Musk’s very evident war on mainstream media. Reports regarding any of Musk’s companies are quick to get the dreaded “false” or “fake news” response from the CEO when they are unfounded.
Elon Musk
Tesla AI boss reveals how big Optimus is going to get
Tesla’s Optimus chief corrected himself on X, confirming a staggering 10 million robot production target.
![Tesla Optimus Gen 3 [Credit: Tesla]](https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/tesla-optimus-gen3-diner.jpg)
Tesla’s Optimus program has a new number attached to it, after Ashok Elluswamy, the executive who has run the humanoid robot program since June 2025, posted a three word correction on X Thursday, “Correction, 10 million robots.”
The line clarifies the long term annual capacity Tesla is building toward its planned second Optimus production line at Gigafactory Texas, a figure Musk has cited repeatedly since last year’s shareholder meeting.
The scale is worth noting, because ten million robots a year would mean Tesla building more units annually than most countries sell in new cars. Tesla has framed this as a second line, not the first. The buildout is happening in two phases: a roughly one million unit per year line inside Tesla’s Fremont factory, installed on the floor space vacated when Model S and Model X production ended earlier this year, and a much larger dedicated facility under construction at Giga Texas that broke ground on its first steel structure in May. That Texas facility is the one Elluswamy’s correction refers to, and is expected to reach volume production sometime in 2027.
Correction, 10 million robots https://t.co/0z4nyQNTzp
— Ashok Elluswamy (@aelluswamy) July 30, 2026
Tesla Optimus project fires up as Musk sees production line progress
Elluswamy took over Optimus from Milan Kovac last summer and has spent the months since talking up the program’s trajectory. Elon Musk has also floated the ten million figure at Tesla’s 2025 shareholder meeting.
Ending Model S and Model X production to make room for the first Optimus line was one of the more consequential manufacturing decisions in the company’s recent history, retiring two flagship vehicles in favor of a robot that has yet to enter mass production. Musk has previously estimated per unit production costs at $20,000 to $25,000 once Tesla reaches a million units a year, though he hasn’t said what that cost looks like at ten times the volume.
The Trump Administration today made several key moves to help with the deployment of autonomous vehicles by cutting overreaching red tape that has stifled growth and innovation for years.
The moves, which were put forth by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), aim to grant temporary exemptions to at least one company currently, although that could expand in the coming months. Additionally, it will work with organizations to develop standards and a sound but efficient regulatory landscape.
Zoox is the only company mentioned explicitly by the Trump Administration in its press release announcing the new terms today. They will receive a temporary two-year exemption that will allow the commercial deployment of up to 2,500 vehicles annually for two years.
There is a potential exemption for Robomart, Inc., which “requests a temporary exemption from certain FMVSS No. 500 requirements for a low-speed vehicle operated by an ADS without a human driver onboard. NHTSA will publish a separate notice seeking public comment on its merits once the initial evaluation is complete,” the agency said.
Here are the five new terms that Secretary Sean Duffy has implemented through the NHTSA today:
- Allow Zoox to commercially deploy its robotaxis through a temporary exemption.
This temporary exemption will allow the commercial deployment of up to 2,500 vehicles annually for two years, subject to an enhanced, adaptable oversight structure that can evolve as Zoox’s technology advances. - Accelerate development of first-ever AV performance standards through a partnership with SAE Industry Technologies Consortia (ITC).
This partnership will fund a three-year, $5 million “A2SCEND” consortium, bringing together experts to gather data and accelerate creation of the first-ever AV performance standards. This project will inform a single national standard for AV safety to eliminate the patchwork regulatory landscape that has stifled innovation for years. - Publish an interim final rule that allows vehicles manufactured prior to an exemption to be eligible for a commercial deployment exemption.
This rule will modernize the application process and improve access to exemptions for innovators, including AV developers, by granting the NHTSA Administrator the discretion to apply temporary exemptions to vehicles manufactured prior to the effective date of an exemption grant. - Streamline the application process for Part 555 exemptions by updating guidance and soliciting feedback from the public.
By updating the Part 555 exemption process—which allows automakers to temporarily sell a limited number of non-compliant vehicles, primarily to test new technologies—NHTSA is aiming to create a more flexible oversight structure for exemptions and summarize recent AV framework activities, including expanded exemption pathways, streamlined crash reporting, and ongoing efforts to modernize Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). - Establish a new Federal Docket for public feedback on NHTSA’s updated safe AV development and deployment guidance.
NHTSA is updating its technical guidance for AVs for the first time since 2017—focusing on key safety areas like emergency responder interactions, safety management systems, remote assistance, and post-crash behavior to help the industry scale up driverless deployments safely.
Additionally, the NHTSA said it has modernized some safety standards by proposing updates to:
- FMVSS 102 – Transmission shifting
- FMVSS 103/104 – Windshield defrosting and wiping
- FMVSS 110 – Tire placards
- FMVSS 135 – Braking systems
- FMVSS 101 – Controls and displays
- FMVSS 108 – Vehicle lighting
- FMVSS 111 – Mirrors and rearview display
- FMVSS 126 – Electronic stability control systems
- FMVSS 201/208 – Sun visors and warning labels
These changes aim to make the regulatory process for autonomous vehicles more streamlined and efficient, which could help the U.S. gain dominance over autonomous vehicle systems moving forward.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk denies ridiculous Gigafactory Shanghai rumor
![Tesla Optimus Gen 3 [Credit: Tesla]](https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/tesla-optimus-gen3-diner-80x80.jpg)
Tesla AI boss reveals how big Optimus is going to get
