Tesla’s mission is simple and includes getting other automakers to join in the party. The Chevy Bolt, quirky as it may look, technically beat Tesla to market with a 200+ mile range EV that can be had for the $35,000 ballpark. Nissan, who I humbly believe to be the only other automaker currently taking full EVs seriously, has just announced their all new 2018 Leaf. The party is undoubtedly slow, but other automakers such as Volvo have at least talked about “electrification” (clever marketing shorthand for hybrids) but we can no longer deny that electric vehicles are here and their growth will not be able to be stopped.
Just as every concept EV talked about before 2016 was touted as a “Tesla killer,” it is now impossible not to compare every new electric offering with the much anticipated Tesla Model 3. So let’s do just that. The table below highlights some key specs for each.
| NISSAN LEAF | TESLA MODEL 3 | |
| Base price, before tax credits | $29,990 | $35,000 |
| Price with options | SL – $36,200 | Premium + EAP – $45,000 |
| Range (miles) | 150 (higher coming 2019) | 220 (310 for $9,000 upgrade) |
| Battery | 40 kWh/ (higher coming 2019) | Undisclosed |
| Charge time – Level 2 | Up to 22 miles per hour | Up to 30 miles per hour (std batt) |
| Charge time – Level 3 | Up to 88 miles per ½ hour | Up to 130 miles per ½ hour (std) |
| Charging network | No dedicated network | Tesla Supercharger, pay per use |
| Overall Length/Width | 176.4” / 70.5” | 184.8” / 82.2” |
| Cargo space | 23.6 cf | 15 cf |
| Body style | 4-door hatchback | 4-door sedan |
| Infotainment | Apple CarPlay, Android Auto | Tesla’s own |
| Main display | 7” | 15” |
| 0-60 mph time | 8 seconds (Motor Trend est.) | 5.6 seconds |
| Driver’s Assist Suite | ProPILOT ($2,200) | Autopilot ($5,000) |
| Automatic Emergency Braking | Standard | Standard |
If you want to get into a relatively long range EV (150 miles or greater) for the lowest possible price, the base 2018 Nissan Leaf wins out. I will also assume that you will be able to get your hands on a Leaf much sooner than a Model 3. Finally, if you absolutely insist on a hatchback, the Leaf has it.
Outside of those three things, and possibly the still large size of a Model 3, I can’t personally find any reason to choose a Leaf over a Model 3. To be clear I’m proud of Nissan for upping their game a bit. The 2018 version is in my very humble opinion, far superior in the looks department to the frog-like 2017 it is replacing. Nissan’s V-Motion grille is sharp, and hopefully takes your attention off the obvious charge port cover above it. The lines of the car itself are much more closely aligned with Nissan’s other offerings, which I find to have adequate design. Similarly, the rear tail lights are modern and edgy. If you can excuse all the buttons, the interior looks sharp. The Apple and Android faithful alike will appreciate the available car play integration. The bottom line for me is that every EV is a step in the right direction, even if this car won’t compel families to ditch the gasoline completely. In the absence of a reliable and dedicated fast charging network for long distance travel, the Leaf is still primarily a commuter car. 150 miles of range will simply allow a few after work activities without much thought.
I am excited to see the range and price that Nissan makes available in 2019 because for now, the base cost per mile of $199.93 falls far short of Tesla’s $159.09. I’d also like to see them re-think their battery management system, which I am to understand leaves something to be desired. One owner described his experience with a 2014 Leaf as losing 20% capacity thus far.
When looking at what we know about the Model 3 however, I can’t really compare the Leaf in any serious manner. I’m trying to be reasonable, to give Nissan a fair shake, but there are several things that make me a Tesla fanatic that are sorely missing from the Leaf – and any other current EV for that matter – that may or may not ever come close.
Supercharging. EVs will remain a commuter or secondary car until you can load up the kids and head to Disney with the reasonable assurance that there are plenty of chargers along the way that will a) be working, and b) charge quickly. Tesla has made a huge commitment in this front because they know that’s what it takes.
Over the air updates. I have not yet heard of Nissan taking this approach, but I suspect if they do, it would be limited to maps and small changes. I don’t foresee the Leaf being able to give your car the sudden ability to automatically open your garage four years after you’ve purchased it. Some current automakers do have software updates for their vehicles, but my understanding is that you have to bring it in to the dealership to have it done. This totally defeats the purpose.
Dealerships. You’d be hard pressed to find a harsher critic of dealerships than I. Whether discussing the 2011 Jeep Wrangler that took me 3 hours to get for the exact price I walked in and demanded, or that time I spoke on behalf of a recently widowed neighbor with an actual cash budget who could not, no matter how you pitch it, afford that extended dealer’s warranty package, I can go on and on and about how much I dislike the experience. It always takes hours. You always get passed around from salesperson to manager to finance person. You may even get your credit run 10 times simultaneously (I’m talking to you, Hyundai dealership!) No thank you. I will order my car online, know the exact price and meet you there with a pre-printed check for the exact amount owed.
Looks. I get it, I really do, people love hatchbacks. My Model S is a hatch and has accommodated many a Home Depot trip. My once beloved Scion tC was a hatch, and once hauled 27 boxes of Pergo brand laminate floor planks. Even the Jeep with the horrible dealership experience picked up a washing machine. A washing machine! But I simply cannot wrap my head around the idea that you could conceivably compare the gorgeous, timeless and sleek looks of the Model 3 with the quirky, if a bit modern and sharp, Nissan Leaf.
Performance. There’s a reason I never considered a hybrid or EV before. Now that I’m a bit older and have the budget to pick a car I actually like, I’m not going to voluntarily drive something that takes 8 seconds to get to 60. I want tight steering, good handling, and the ability to make my passengers squeal with delight when I punch it.
Interior. This is a personal preference and I’m with you if you think the minimalistic interior of the Model 3 is crazy. It is. But I can just about promise you that you will not miss all those buttons. I sat in a Porsche Macan at the auto show and while I expected to feel great inside a new offering from a brand with as much clout as Porsche, I was too busy wondering what in the world all those buttons did. It’s almost a joke how many.
Confession: I started this post excited about the new Leaf. I tweeted about it first thing this morning; the more the merrier in EV world if you ask me. But when getting right down to the specifications, it’s hard not to see that everyone else still has a long way to go. They’re taking baby steps while Tesla is competing in the long jump.
What do you think? Do the two cars compare? Tell us in the comments!
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Even though the guarantee gives you free repair, it still take a lot of your time.
The above said, I think it is also informative to compare the overall progress of Tesla and Nissan since the 2010 release of the Leaf. Tesla was selling the Roadster Sport as their flagship model, fully kitted out for just $155,850. Now they have the Model 3 with comparable hp and torque, a 0-60 a second slower, and otherwise immensely superior in every possible way for a third the price. Nissan has doubled the range from the original 73 and made the car less ugly and a nice bit better, and dropped the price a little. The Model 3 should have the other automakers scrambling around like their factories are on fire, it makes clear that they are in extreme mortal danger if they do not considerably quicken their progress.
I think you have the "Body Style" entries swapped in your table...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="2fatpugs, post: 9445, member: 14805"]I think you have 4-Door sedan and 4-Door hatchback switched.
You guys beat me to the punch! Indeed, you're both right and I'm sure @Electric Jen will correct in the morning.
Jen, other than this small typo, very nice comparative assessment! Well done! :cool:
One factor to consider is that Nissan, like all Japanese brands, are known to be reliable in all parts. You seldom have to come back to the dealer to have something repaired. Tesla has a long way to go there.
Even though the guarantee gives you free repair, it still take a lot of your time.
We don't know how reliable the Model3 is going to be yet. Also Tesla batteries are known to be very long lasting with minimum degradation, the Nissan battery is much poorer in this regard. A very major negative.
Elon Musks's mission statement for Tesla has always been "to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible." The Model 3 is meant to be the culmination of that goal to make an all-electric vehicle for the mass market that everyone can afford. Put differently, the goal is to make the "Model T" of electric vehicles. The Model T was built in 1908 by Ford, and ushered in the age of the automobile. In 1999 it was awarded the "most influential car of the 20th century." Ford's concept of the Model T is captured in this quote:
"I will build a car for the great multitude. It will be large enough for the family, but small enough for the individual to run and care for. It will be constructed of the best materials, by the best men to be hired, after the simplest designs that modern engineering can devise. But it will be so low in price that no man making a good salary will be unable to own one..." (Ford & Crowther, 1922, p. 73).
The Tesla Model 3 has the potential to be the Model T of electric cars--the most influential car of the 21st century--ushering in a new era dominated by electric cars. But a sedan won't do it. A hatchback will because it is more functional. Hopefully, after getting over the hump of "production hell" in starting up Model 3 mass production, Elon Musk will see that the hatch back is the missing piece and make version of the Model 3 with that.
The real comparison to make is Leaf vs Bolt, since both are "city car" EV hatchbacks with limited potential for road trips. I think the Leaf wins that tussle as one does not need 238 miles of range driving around town in a day, 150 is plenty. Eight seconds to 60 is also fine within the city, and the Leaf has a lot more cargo space, superior proPilot, and a price $8,000 lower.
The above said, I think it is also informative to compare the overall progress of Tesla and Nissan since the 2010 release of the Leaf. Tesla was selling the Roadster Sport as their flagship model, fully kitted out for just $155,850. Now they have the Model 3 with comparable hp and torque, a 0-60 a second slower, and otherwise immensely superior in every possible way for a third the price. Nissan has doubled the range from the original 73 and made the car less ugly and a nice bit better, and dropped the price a little. The Model 3 should have the other automakers scrambling around like their factories are on fire, it makes clear that they are in extreme mortal danger if they do not considerably quicken their progress.
But. No battery factories no Tesla competition, no fast charging network no Tesla competition. Nothing happening yet!
How much longer can they leave it?
The Tesla 3 seems superior in almost every way to the Leaf except for not having a hatchback, and therefore also having less cargo space. Jen said, "I get it, I really do, people love hatchbacks." But whether a car has a hatchback is not about "Looks"--it is about functionality. A car not only serves to transport people, but also things, some of which need a hatchback to fit them in your car. Not having a hatchback is a serious functional limitation of the Model 3, and is therefore a serious problem for Tesla.
Elon Musks's mission statement for Tesla has always been "to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible." The Model 3 is meant to be the culmination of that goal to make an all-electric vehicle for the mass market that everyone can afford. Put differently, the goal is to make the "Model T" of electric vehicles. The Model T was built in 1908 by Ford, and ushered in the age of the automobile. In 1999 it was awarded the "most influential car of the 20th century." Ford's concept of the Model T is captured in this quote:
"I will build a car for the great multitude. It will be large enough for the family, but small enough for the individual to run and care for. It will be constructed of the best materials, by the best men to be hired, after the simplest designs that modern engineering can devise. But it will be so low in price that no man making a good salary will be unable to own one..." (Ford & Crowther, 1922, p. 73).
The Tesla Model 3 has the potential to be the Model T of electric cars--the most influential car of the 21st century--ushering in a new era dominated by electric cars. But a sedan won't do it. A hatchback will because it is more functional. Hopefully, after getting over the hump of "production hell" in starting up Model 3 mass production, Elon Musk will see that the hatch back is the missing piece and make version of the Model 3 with that.
Where have you been? The Y is coming out next, a CUV/SUV built on the model3 platform. It is expected to be released in 2019 after they have worked through the model3 backlog of 500k preorders. Elon Musk has said they expect to sell even more than the 3.
The model hasn't been unveiled yet but expect it will be sometime in 2018.
The Tesla 3 seems superior in almost every way to the Leaf except for not having a hatchback, and therefore also having less cargo space. (...) Not having a hatchback is a serious functional limitation of the Model 3, and is therefore a serious problem for Tesla. (...)
The Tesla Model 3 has the potential to be the Model T of electric cars--the most influential car of the 21st century--ushering in a new era dominated by electric cars. But a sedan won't do it.[/QUOTE]
@L-squared , first of all welcome to our forum!
You are correct in reminding us of Elon's stated mission. This will happen in steps though and the Model 3 success is a key one. The fact that it is not a hatchback did not prevent it getting 400k reservations within a couple of months last year. By the end of 2018, it will be produced at a rate close to half a million cars per year, and sold worldwide. That success will enable the next step!
[QUOTE="Richard Vivian, post: 9484, member: 6008"]Where have you been? The Y is coming out next, a CUV/SUV built on the model3 platform. It is expected to be released in 2019 after they have worked through the model3 backlog of 500k preorders. Elon Musk has said they expect to sell even more than the 3.
The model hasn't been unveiled yet but expect it will be sometime in 2018.
Apart from your 1st sentence, a bit blunt relative to our preferred forum standards, I am with you, Richard. You're right we need to consider the Y as the natural extension of the Model 3 offering. Kinda like the 4-Series Coupe & Convertible are complementary options to the BMW 3-Series range.
Therefore by 2020, one will be able to consider 3+Y as the most influential car combo of the 21st century!! :-)
Where have you been? The Y is coming out next, a CUV/SUV built on the model3 platform. It is expected to be released in 2019 after they have worked through the model3 backlog of 500k preorders. Elon Musk has said they expect to sell even more than the 3.
The model hasn't been unveiled yet but expect it will be sometime in 2018.
Thanks for mentioning that (though the tone of your first sentence is off-putting). I had heard of the Y, but only in passing in an interview with Musk. Based on the little information out on it, I agree with the predictions that the Model Y will likely outsell the Model 3, because of having greater functionality. But that is only if the price is in the same range as the Model 3, in keeping with Musk's Step 3 of his Master Plan of creating mass-market, affordable, all-electric cars. In that case, the Model Y may be the Tesla that becomes the Model T of the 21st century.
@L-squared , first of all welcome to our forum!
You are correct in reminding us of Elon's stated mission. This will happen in steps though and the Model 3 success is a key one. The fact that it is not a hatchback did not prevent it getting 400k reservations within a couple of months last year. By the end of 2018, it will be produced at a rate close to half a million cars per year, and sold worldwide. That success will enable the next step!
Apart from your 1st sentence, a bit blunt relative to our preferred forum standards, I am with you, Richard. You're right we need to consider the Y as the natural extension of the Model 3 offering. Kinda like the 4-Series Coupe & Convertible are complementary options to the BMW 3-Series range.
Therefore by 2020, one will be able to consider 3+Y as the most influential car combo of the 21st century!! :)
Hi @Michael Russo,
Thanks for your welcome! I agree about the vital importance of the Model 3 in Step 3 of the Tesla master plan to mass-produce affordable all-electric vehicles. I've been waiting patiently for Step 3 for years, and very excited about the Model 3. I've been close to pulling the trigger on ordering a Model 3, but the lack of the hatchback has held me back. (I'd get a model S, which has a hatchback, except it out well out of my price range.) 4 of the last 5 cars we've bought in the last 23 years have had a hatchback because of its functionality (a used Volvo 240 DL, a Subaru Legacy wagon, a Honda Fit, and a Toyota Prius V). I cannot justify trading in a hatchback for a sedan. So, I guess I'll have to keep waiting till the Y comes out to finally get my EV.
Hi @Michael Russo,
Thanks for your welcome! (...) I've been waiting patiently for Step 3 for years, and very excited about the Model 3. I've been close to pulling the trigger on ordering a Model 3, but the lack of the hatchback has held me back. (...) I cannot justify trading in a hatchback for a sedan. So, I guess I'll have to keep waiting till the Y comes out to finally get my EV.
With pleasure.
I understand where you're coming from from. I have had both sedans, hatchback & now an SUV (which is kinda the same as far as practicality).
I agree the Y would be great choice yet I fear for the price premium over Model 3 and I can't wait that long for it. Already waiting until 1Q19 presumably here in Europe will be torture... ;)
I know Tesla offers the ability to charge the Model 3 at 30 miles per hour right up front. No extra cost.
Last I check the Bolt required the purchase of an EVSE to get good home charging.
What does the new Leaf come with? or do you have to still buy the EVSE separately?
My minimum charging at home preference is over 5kWh.
So many other EV manufacturers seem to completely drop the ball on charging but claim competitive pricing... until you pay an extra 2K to have an EVSE installed at your house. Now that Leaf isn't so much cheaper is it?... but that's why I am asking.
@L-squared , first of all welcome to our forum!
You are correct in reminding us of Elon's stated mission. This will happen in steps though and the Model 3 success is a key one. The fact that it is not a hatchback did not prevent it getting 400k reservations within a couple of months last year. By the end of 2018, it will be produced at a rate close to half a million cars per year, and sold worldwide. That success will enable the next step!
Apart from your 1st sentence, a bit blunt relative to our preferred forum standards, I am with you, Richard. You're right we need to consider the Y as the natural extension of the Model 3 offering. Kinda like the 4-Series Coupe & Convertible are complementary options to the BMW 3-Series range.
Therefore by 2020, one will be able to consider 3+Y as the most influential car combo of the 21st century!! :)
I would agree with that. Tesla will have solved high production rates by the time Y is revealed. The big question is, will Tesla have the production facilities to cope with the demand of both 3 and Y.
It feels like Tesla is going to have an ongoing problem in relation to supply and demand for a considerable time.
Does anyone know about charging for the Leaf.
I have a 2014 Leaf SL, and from what I've seen the 2018 Leaf won't be any different for charging.
The 2014 Leaf SL and SV have both a J1772 and a CHAdeMO port. The J1772 is limited to 6.6 kW, so charging rate with 240v is 20-25 miles per hour, depending on how you drive. The car came with a 120V-J1772 cord, so unless you added your own EVSE or bought a different cord for 240V, you were limited to 4 miles of range / hour.
The lowest model didn't come with the CHAdeMO port and had a lower limit on the J1772 charging rate as well (I think about half the rate).
The Japanese (along with Detroit) continue to feel BEVs are NOT the way to go and counterproductive for it's gasoline business.
No thanks I will never buy another Japanese car--they want to pollute us to death.
And by the way the table shows the Leaf as a sedan and the Model 3 as a hatchback. Oops try editing your work Teslarati.
And it has a better range, a faster Supercharge a better performance ...
Only the network is less developed at the moment !
Anyway, it is gone now and hopefully I will never buy a Mazda again.
But again, while we wait on our Model 3, we are happy to be able to drive a true EV and Nissan will always hold a special place in EV transport history for their production of the Leaf.
The Tesla model 3 is better value than the 2017 Leaf which has better value than the 2018 Leaf. Falls way short in my book.
The Japanese (along with Detroit) continue to feel BEVs are NOT the way to go and counterproductive for it's gasoline business.
No thanks I will never buy another Japanese car--they want to pollute us to death.
And by the way the table shows the Leaf as a sedan and the Model 3 as a hatchback. Oops try editing your work Teslarati.
I disagree. Clearly the 2018 Leaf is no competition to our Model 3, yet agree with @Electric Jen that Nissan seem to be trying at least and have somewhat sharpened their pencil with this one.
It's Toyota, Honda and Mazda who trailing way behind...
Now, as to them wanting to 'pollute us to death'...? I would not go that far... ;). They'll come around when they have to!
